Central Virginia Aquarium Support

Central Virginia Aquarium Support is a discussion and help group for aquarium hobbyists, newcomer to advanced!
 
HomePortalCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in
... Welcome to Central Virginia Aquarium Support! ... ... Here you can discuss anything aquarium related - meet interesting folks - find equipment and trade fish! ... ... "What's Going On?" Click for a list of Local Meetings and Events ... ... *Latest fish article!* Figure-8 Puffer Article ... ... *Latest plants article!* Dwarf Hygro Article ... ... MEMBERS SHOWCASE see The HOME Page! ...

Share | 
 

 New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
29G42KDs
CVASMember


Posts : 18
Join date : 2014-04-02
Location : Glen Allen

PostSubject: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Thu May 15, 2014 2:23 am

Hello everyone:

I am setting up my first fish tank.

This is the progress so far -
* 3/31 - bought new 29G tank, met Ron.
* 4/2 - Joined CVAS, Please see http://cvas.forumotion.com/t1503-29g-4-2-kids for my introduction and initial discussion on the setup.
* 4/3 - 5/2,  gathered required supplies per valuable advice from CVAS members.
* 5/2 - started cycling tank with 100 ml Tetra Safe Start Plus and 15 ml Tetra AquaSafe Plus (dechlorinator, 15 ml/30G recommended) and Tetra SafeStart Plus (Bacteria, 100 ml/40G recommended), Temprature is set at 80. Initially added 20 lb of Carib-Sea Eco-Complete substrate for a planted aquarium. But soon realized, I needed more.
* 5/8 - Added another 20 lb of Carib-Sea Eco-Complete substrate.

Plan for next 2 weeks -
* 5/15 - I plan to add decorations, a black background, a couple of live plants, 5-6 aquatic plant bulbs placed on root-tabs, 10 ml Tetra AquaSafe Plus, 1 tsp API Aquarium salt, 5 ml SeaChem Prime
* 5/16 - I will get the water tested and if it looks good add 3-5 small community fish
* 5/26 - If the tank cycles well and the fish survive, will add another 3-4 community fish

Perhaps this is too much info, but I am posting in hopes that it would help someone looking to setup a similar 29 gallon tank.

Here are the supplies I've gathered.
Fish Tank (29G) - http://www.tetra-fish.com/Products/fish-tank-aquarium-kits/led-aquarium-kits.aspx
Fish Stand - http://www.walmart.com/ip/South-Shore-Storage-Cabinet-Chocolate/23428869
Substrate - http://www.amazon.com/CaribSea-Eco-Complete-20-Pound-Planted-Aquarium/dp/B0002DH0QM
Air pump - http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-H2Show-Volcano-Kit-Bubbles/dp/B004F441O8
Decorations - http://www.amazon.com/Spongebob-10-Piece-Aquarium-Decorative-Set/dp/B009LL8J5W
Root tabs - http://www.amazon.com/API-Root-Tabs-10-Count/dp/B003OYMOWQ
Aquarium salt - http://www.amazon.com/API-106C-Aquarium-Salt-65-Ounce/dp/B0010P0ZJK
Seachem Prime - http://www.amazon.com/Seachem-116043304-Prime-500ml/dp/B00025694O
Tetra AquaSafe Plus - http://www.amazon.com/Tetra-77140-EasyBalance-16-90-Ounce-500-ml/dp/B0002DI2BE
Tetra SafeStart Plus - http://www.amazon.com/Tetra-77962-SafeStart-70-gallon-8-45-Ounce/dp/B002DZNP3E
Tetra EasyBalance Plus - http://www.amazon.com/Tetra-77140-EasyBalance-16-90-Ounce-500-ml/dp/B0002DI2BE
API Freshwater Master Test Kit - http://www.amazon.com/API-Freshwater-Master-Test-Kit/dp/B000255NCI
Seachem Florish Excel - http://www.amazon.com/Seachem-116045308-Flourish-Excel-500ml/dp/B000256962
Tetra Tetramin Tropical Granules - http://www.amazon.com/Tetra-16121-TetraMin-Granules-3-52-Ounce/dp/B00027ZVE6
Complete Aquatics Aqua Plant Bulbs - Available at Petco B&M only
ATM Outbreak Freshwater - http://www.amazon.com/ATM-Outbreak-Aquarium-Cleaner-Freshwater/dp/B009ETNAJ6
API Goldfish Protect - http://www.amazon.com/API-Goldfish-Protect-Conditioner-4-Ounce/dp/B002YPCQI8
API Melafix - http://www.amazon.com/API-Melafix-Antibacterial-Remedy-8-Ounce/dp/B0002567SW
Kent Freshwater Pro Clear - http://www.amazon.com/Kent-Marine-AKMPROCF16-Freshwater-Aquarium/dp/B006OP4UJC
Water Changer - http://www.amazon.com/Aqueon-Aquarium-Water-Changer-feet/dp/B000YACELE

While I understand some of these are the same products from different companies, I am not 100% clear. I can use some help pick the better ones based on your experience.

Few other questions -

Is the aquarium salt required?

I am looking for some Java Moss. I could not find it in any local store. Any pointers where I can find it (snail free)? I am deciding on the aquatic plant bulbs to avoid the snails that come with the store bought plants.

Am I ok with my plans for 5/15 and 5/16 stated above? Do I need to add more bacteria (Tetra SafeStart Plus or similar) before introducing fish? Please advise - I want to avoid killing any fish.

This is how it looks right now, the white dots are air bubbles in the water.



Thank you!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JohnnyAMH
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 895
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Richmond, Va.

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Thu May 15, 2014 9:36 am

Congrats on getting started with the new tank. It looks lie you have been doing some research to get off to a good start.  It also looks like you are not rushing to get going. I commend you for that. I noticed that you purchased a Test Kit. Now is the time to get started using it. What you want to monitor is the progress of your Nitrogen Cycle. First you will notice a spike in Ammonia. Next you will see a spike in Nitrites. Both can be lethal to fish. That is why most people start with cheap fish they don't mind loosing when starting a new tank without seeding. What the fish do is to provide waste to get the cycle started. Once you start seeing Nitrates you are home free.

Expect to hit a few bumps in the road. Don't let them discourage you. Build your Bio-load slowly and enjoy... Hello

_________________
Keep on Fishin' fish
JohnnyAMH

     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
gerald
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 506
Join date : 2012-11-29
Location : Wake Forest, NC

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Thu May 15, 2014 11:23 am

You wont detect any ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate until there is a SOURCE, either animals, fish food (decaying protein), liquid ammonia, or fertilizer. Nitrifying bacteria cant grow until there's a source of ammonia for them to consume. Fast-growing plants are a more reliable way to make a new tank safe for fish quickly. Hornwort, guppy-grass (Najas), Elodea, Frogbit (Limnobium), Salvinia, and even good old duckweed are good ones for instant ammonia-uptake.

You dont need to add any salt for most freshwater fish. Mollies, guppies, goldfish, and certain other species may do better with some added salt.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
29G42KDs
CVASMember


Posts : 18
Join date : 2014-04-02
Location : Glen Allen

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Thu May 15, 2014 12:19 pm

Thank you JohnnyAMH. Your comment about the "bumps in the road" is very timely. I woke up this morning to load sounds that appeared to be coming from a vaccuum. Walked to the living room and found the sounds were coming from the filter pump. The front wall of the aquarium was cracked and the aquarium was half empty. All I did last night was top up the tank for the first time. The join where the crack started had a chipped edge under the silicone sealer. Definitely a manufacturer problem - someone let this past inspection despite the chipped edge. Wonder how often any of you have run into such an issue. I did see that chipped edge under the join, but it was holding water just fine for the past 7-10 days. I guess it was at the breaking point all along and that little extra water pressure was just enough to crack it from the chip to the top edge. I am glad that I did not have any fish in there. I would have been much more upset than I am right now if I killed any fish. BTW, ruining the carpet was the nightmare that led me to spend $50 on a 50 ft water changer, which, of course, did not fit the sink faucet when I unpacked it this morning to empty rest of the tank. I was back to using the 10 ft siphon into the buckets, spilling a bit more water.

So now, I have water and some water (at least 10 gallon) on the carpet and the rug and under the 300 lb entertainment center all the way to the wall. I am trying to use a ShopVac, may be got 1/2 gallon out, not quite working. Taking a break from the cleanup and writing this update. Next will try the carpet cleaner wet vaccuum. Need to relocate the cracked aquarium and the stand... let the whole area dry up before taking next steps. Really concerned about mold as the carpet is nicely soaked for, I presume, over 6 hrs now. Otherwise, life is good. :-)

Any pointers on clean up and to get this going again are much appreciated. Sadly, I need to postpone my setup for a week or so.

When I replace the tank, are there any better ones out there? A cracked tank and a river in the living room was the last thing I expected. Do tank manufacturers provide any remedies when their oversight cause disasters like this or is it that this does not happen with larger tanks at all? I can't imagine a 55G or 128G cracking like this without warning, and the mess that would create.









Back to top Go down
View user profile
JohnnyAMH
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 895
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Richmond, Va.

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Thu May 15, 2014 5:06 pm

Wow! I am so sorry to hear about your tank's problems...  Sad 
What a bummer,,, Hang in there... oh well

_________________
Keep on Fishin' fish
JohnnyAMH

     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JohnnyAMH
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 895
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Richmond, Va.

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Thu May 15, 2014 5:13 pm

gerald wrote:
You wont detect any ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate until there is a SOURCE, either animals, fish food (decaying protein), liquid ammonia, or fertilizer.   Nitrifying bacteria cant grow until there's a source of ammonia for them to consume.  Fast-growing plants are a more reliable way to make a new tank safe for fish quickly.  Hornwort, guppy-grass (Najas), Elodea, Frogbit (Limnobium), Salvinia, and even good old duckweed are good ones for instant ammonia-uptake.

You dont need to add any salt for most freshwater fish.  Mollies, guppies, goldfish, and certain other species may do better with some added salt.

I agree with Gerald. The fish are one way to provide the SOURCE of ammonia to get your Nitrogen Cycle started. When your are ready to start again, follow the same procedure, then add the fish, then start testing... Cool 

Thanks Gerald for making that clear... Hello

_________________
Keep on Fishin' fish
JohnnyAMH

     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
gerald
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 506
Join date : 2012-11-29
Location : Wake Forest, NC

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Thu May 15, 2014 5:31 pm

When you get the new tank, put it on the stand with about 3-4 inches of water in it and push/pull up & down on each corner to make sure there is NO rocking free-play.  If there is, shim under the stand until you can NOT rock it at all.  Cracking is usually the result of twisting stress from a stand that is not evenly supporting the tank.  Even support means all four corners are rigidly supported in the same plane.  It is NOT the same as being level.  Checking an empty tank on a stand with a carpenter's level might not detect a potential twisting strain. I have many tanks that are not quite level (old house with uneven floors) but I always check to make sure the stands provide even support (no tank rocking) as I fill them, and I have never had a tank crack (in 40+ years of fish keeping).  The chip on the edge might never have been a problem without twisting stress to crack it.  Good luck with next one!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ron
SupportTeam
avatar

Posts : 1054
Join date : 2012-02-06
Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Thu May 15, 2014 6:30 pm

Oh No! I doubt manufacturers provide remedies, but the store you purchased from should provide an exchange or refund. I know where you purchased and they do have a good return policy.
I doubt you will have a mold problem that quick if you wet vac thoroughly. I would recommend if your able to move the entertainment stand so you can wet vac there also and dry out the area as well as the stand. The water could ruin it also as mold could be an issue if you don't do so. After vacuuming as much as possible run a fan or two across the floor until the area is completely dry. You should find everything to be okay after that. Doubt carpet will ruin if you can dry out quickly.
Gerald has some good points on what to do with your next tank to keep from a repeat. Doubt that leveling was the issue though as you described what sounds like a serious defect in the manufacturing process. Good luck and looking forward to a more positive start on the new tank.
Ron

_________________
I was going to procrastinate today, but I will wait and do it tomorrow.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
29G42KDs
CVASMember


Posts : 18
Join date : 2014-04-02
Location : Glen Allen

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sat May 24, 2014 1:25 pm

Hello everyone:

It took a good 8 hrs to clean up the water mess and another 2-3 days to dry up using fans.

Went back to the store bought another 29G kit. Checked all the three kits they had.. found two of the three had cracked glass under the joints. Concluded that the tank quality is a hit or miss. Lesson: Newbies need to check the tank thoroughly with the help of store staff before bringing one home.

On May 22, Thursday night set up the second tank. Added Tetra SafeStart Plus and AquaSafe Plus. Added the decorations and a live plant and 5-6 plant bulbs placed on root tabs. I am using the original filter from the previous tank in the hopes that some bacteria culture would transition over. Temprature is set at 80. Tank is holding up so far but I am still concerned and check it for leaks from time to time.

My objective is to avoid killing any fish I add to this tank, so my questions to the group are -
1. Its been about 36 hrs since I added the Tetra SafeStart Plus. Am I ready for a couple of small fish? I understand that if I wait too long to add fish, the bacteria may die off.
2. Should I add more plants and bacteria products or look for seed material before adding fish?

Thank you.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fward
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 319
Join date : 2014-04-03
Location : Farmville

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sat May 24, 2014 2:20 pm

A few ways you can do it:
Mean way, but most used way, Add four cheap fish and let them build your bacteria colony. They will produce ammonia and it will have an effect on there lifespan and health.

Easiest way. take your filters you are going to use and put on a friends tank for a few weeks then make the switch back to your tank and add fish. Should be a nice seeded filter for your new fish.

Fishless cycle. Buy some pure ammonia. Put a little in and start testing your water. Once you see Nitrites you are halfway home. Once you start seeing high Nitrates and no nitrites or ammonia do a big water change and you should be ready for fish. You will have to add a little ammonia each day and maybe some fish food for the bacteria to start growing. Once the day comes that you add Ammonia, and within 24 hours you have 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrites, with high Nitrates you are ready.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
29G42KDs
CVASMember


Posts : 18
Join date : 2014-04-02
Location : Glen Allen

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sat May 24, 2014 4:44 pm

Thanks Fward. This is very helpful.

Not sure if it was wise - but I went ahead and added a pinch of fish flakes, 5 ml of SeaChem Prime and a tsp of API aquarium salt in an effort to get the ammonia-nitrite-nitrate cycle started. I will add another plant to the aquarium and get the water tested tomorrow. If it tests ok, I will add a couple of fish.

I am thinking - with two live plants, 5-6 plant bulbs, 4 fertilizer root tabs, bacteria from SafeStart Plus, some SeaChem Prime to counter ammonia, chlorine etc.,  after cycling 48-60 hrs and testing the water quality, it should be safe to add a couple of small fish to a 29G tank. Even if none of the additives have established the biological filter yet, the plants and the two small fish should get the cycle going?

Any thoughts?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
gerald
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 506
Join date : 2012-11-29
Location : Wake Forest, NC

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sat May 24, 2014 5:58 pm

You could add more fast-growing plants and completely avoid the risk of ammonia or nitrite poisoning. What kind of plant is in there now? If it's a Spathiphyllum (peace lily) it wont help much with ammonia uptake -- its not aquatic and cant grow well under water. If it's Anubias, it will grow but very slowly, and a plant's ammonia uptake is proportional to its growth rate. The bulbs wont do any good until they have leaves (chlorophyll) for photosynthesis. If they're Aponogeton bulbs they'll do a good job once they fill out with many leaves.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
29G42KDs
CVASMember


Posts : 18
Join date : 2014-04-02
Location : Glen Allen

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sat May 24, 2014 6:06 pm

Hi gerald, yes, it is Anubias. You recommended - Hornwort, guppy-grass (Najas), Elodea, Frogbit (Limnobium), Salvinia, and duckweed. I will try to find a couple of these and cycle for a day before testing the water and adding fish. How is that?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
gerald
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 506
Join date : 2012-11-29
Location : Wake Forest, NC

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sat May 24, 2014 7:07 pm

Yes those would be great, but keep in mind that your test kit may not show any ammonia until the fish have been in there eating and pooping long enough (maybe days or weeks) to build up enough to be detectable. And nitrate probably wont show up for a few weeks (unless of course there's NO3 in the fert tabs).
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JohnnyAMH
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 895
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Richmond, Va.

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sun May 25, 2014 1:19 am

29G42KDs wrote:
Thanks Fward. This is very helpful.

Not sure if it was wise - but I went ahead and added a pinch of fish flakes, 5 ml of SeaChem Prime and a tsp of API aquarium salt in an effort to get the ammonia-nitrite-nitrate cycle started. I will add another plant to the aquarium and get the water tested tomorrow. If it tests ok, I will add a couple of fish.

I am thinking - with two live plants, 5-6 plant bulbs, 4 fertilizer root tabs, bacteria from SafeStart Plus, some SeaChem Prime to counter ammonia, chlorine etc.,  after cycling 48-60 hrs and testing the water quality, it should be safe to add a couple of small fish to a 29G tank. Even if none of the additives have established the biological filter yet, the plants and the two small fish should get the cycle going?

Any thoughts?

It's good to see that things are going well and you are ready to add fish. It's not necessary to sacrifice your starter fish. There doesn't have to be a lethal ammonia spike to get your tank's nitrogen cycle started. The reason for testing is to help determine when to start performing water changes. If you can detect any ammonia, it's time for a partial water change. It does not take a lot of ammonia to kill fish or cycle any tank. Any detectable amount is bad. Once your ammonia level becomes undetectable you will start seeing a rise in nitrates and then you can consider your tank as cycled. The time it takes for a tank to cycle is not predictable. There are a lot of factors involved but testing will help you understand your when there is a change. Don't be too disappointed if your starter fish don't make it but they should. Testing will help you to protect them. Take your time and build your bio-load slowly... Neutral

_________________
Keep on Fishin' fish
JohnnyAMH

     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
29G42KDs
CVASMember


Posts : 18
Join date : 2014-04-02
Location : Glen Allen

PostSubject: Finally - my tank is established   Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:17 pm

Hello everyone,

I added a couple of more Amazon Sword plants to the tank on May 26. And then added 4 Tetras, 4 Platies and a Molly on May 28.

Lost one Platy on May 31. I figured that happened likely due to the temprature of the tank (around 82 at the time) or the fish itself. I haven't lost any others since. Brought down the temprature to 79-80.

I kept checking the water for a ammonia spike but never observed it. Changed one third water on June 21. Added some SeaChem Prime (for chlorine), some EasyBalance Plus (PH) and some AmmoniaSafe. Observed that adding all these things to the water turned it green and then the green  dust settled on all the decorations etc. Not sure what caused it. Any ideas?

Added another Molly, another Tetra, two cat fish (bottom feeders) and a snail (Algae eater) to the tank after the water change the same day. They all cleared up the green dust off all the decorations.

Now I have a total of 12 fish and a snail in there. One of the six plant bulbs I added to the tank sprouted within 2-3 weeks, but the fish ate up the first two leaves on the onion plant and it has not grown back since.

Shall I remove all the plant bulbs from the tank? Do they impact the water quality for the fish somehow?

I am feeding the fish twice a day, and since there is no algae (that I can see), the snail gets to feast on a slice of Zuccini every couple of days. He barely leaves the peal ring.

Thinking of adding an automatic feeder to the tank. Walmart has a no-frills feeder for $12, I am thinking about.

I could not find any fast growing plants in the stores, so settled on three amazon swords and an anubias. I am glad all plants are still green. Anubias has even had a new leaf sprout. I have clipped some browning leaves off one of the amazon swords, like came this way from the store. Would like to add more plants not finding any fast growing ones recommended on this forum in the stores for some reason.

Found a led light that constantly changes colors. I switch from the default white led to the color changing led in the evenings while watching tv. Looks pretty cool, kids are happy. See second vid below.

Oh, and Brazil won against Chile today on the last penalty kick :-)





Back to top Go down
View user profile
Donald
CVASMember


Posts : 504
Join date : 2012-05-18
Location : Midlothian, VA

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:06 pm

What does the AmmoniaSafe do that Prime doesn't take care of?

_________________
study fish study
Back to top Go down
View user profile
29G42KDs
CVASMember


Posts : 18
Join date : 2014-04-02
Location : Glen Allen

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:39 pm

Donald wrote:
What does the AmmoniaSafe do that Prime doesn't take care of?

Hi Donald:

Thank you for confirming. I thought the same. What happened was that I took some water for testing to the store right after the water change and they found the ammonia little elevated on the test strip. So AmmoniaSafe was recommended that I added 15 ml to the tank for good measure along with 15 ml of SeaChem Prime.

I am also adding a bit of SeaChem Flourish Excel product for the plants.

When should I add more root tabs? I added 4-5 when I (re)started the tank a month back.

I would also like to add a few more 1-2 inch fish in a week. Hope that is not too soon.

What else can I improve upon to avoid killing any fish?

Thanks!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Donald
CVASMember


Posts : 504
Join date : 2012-05-18
Location : Midlothian, VA

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:37 pm

I'm no expert but a couple of thoughts...

All that AmmoniaSafe and Prime (30mls?) sounds like a good way to mess up your nitrogen cycle. Get your own test kit if you don't have one and monitor the parameters yourself. If there is a NH3 spike I prefer to do more frequent water changes and cut back on feeding. You can spend a lot of money on additives that really don't help in the long run. Keep the Prime of course.

I stopped using Excel over 6 months ago and haven't noticed a difference. It is said to be nothing more than an algicide.

Switch to Flourish Comprehensive and Flourish Tabs (add every 6 months I believe). The Amazons in my 29g are doing well with plenty of new growth.

In general the best way to avoid killing your fish is frequent water changes and use quality food.

Hope that helps.



_________________
study fish study
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JohnnyAMH
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 895
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Richmond, Va.

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:18 pm

Donald wrote:
I'm no expert but a couple of thoughts...

All that AmmoniaSafe and Prime (30mls?) sounds like a good way to mess up your nitrogen cycle. Get your own test kit if you don't have one and monitor the parameters yourself. If there is a NH3 spike I prefer to do more frequent water changes and cut back on feeding. You can spend a lot of money on additives that really don't help in the long run. Keep the Prime of course.

I stopped using Excel over 6 months ago and haven't noticed a difference. It is said to be nothing more than an algicide.

Switch to Flourish Comprehensive and Flourish Tabs (add every 6 months I believe). The Amazons in my 29g are doing well with plenty of new growth.

In general the best way to avoid killing your fish is frequent water changes and use quality food.

Hope that helps.

I agree with much Donald has said. Most additives are not essential for good  husbandry but they do make good customers. IMHO, the most important water parameter to monitor is Nitrate. It's best to check it regularly yourself. The best way to control Nitrate levels and maintain good general tank health is partial water changes. The best way not to become an expert on medications is good husbandry. An ounce of prevention through good husbandry is worth a pound of cure. I seems that you are well on your way to a lot of enjoyment in the hobby...  Smile

_________________
Keep on Fishin' fish
JohnnyAMH

     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
29G42KDs
CVASMember


Posts : 18
Join date : 2014-04-02
Location : Glen Allen

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:19 pm

Thanks Donald and JohnnyAMH. I tested with the API test kit for the first time today. Here is what I found -

Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - between 0 and 5 ppm
PH - 7.4

Does this indicate a fully estabished bio-filter?

About the additives, I am no fan, but my ignorance (call it inexperience) makes me risk-averse and endorse the advice from the experts in the store. After all, fishes' lives are in my hands :-)

I do have a serious question though - These additive products are said to convert ammonia into a non-toxic form (not remove the ammonia, a test will still indicate ammonia). The bio-filter still has to process it to Nitrite to nitrate. Is this your understanding too?

One of the store experts once advised that I can add up to 5 times the recommended quantity of such additives without harming anything. I concluded from that advice that these additives help fish (e.g. by converting ammonia to non-toxic form) but do not cause side effects/new problems.

Thanks.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ron
SupportTeam
avatar

Posts : 1054
Join date : 2012-02-06
Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:58 pm

Sounds like your take is cycled well. As mentioned prior water changes are crucial. While I DO believe in Prime with every water change, I too do not like using additives. If you monitor regularly with your test kit for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and PH you will catch issues early and correct with most water changes. Frequency of the water changes can be a whole new topic of discussion from weekly, bi-weekly and monthly. I prefer the 7 to no more than 10 day rule BUT everyone's tank, habits, and etc. are different. Use what you feel is working and stay on that routine and all should be well.
As to "adding up to 5 X's the recommended dosage without harming anything"..... possibly but my gut feeling is too much on a regular basis leads to problems. Think of this. Dinking clean water is essential and satisfying to you and will not harm you. But when you drink too much it can make you sick and or kill you, right? My suggestion is follow the manufacturer's recommended dosage. They spent a lot of money and research to make those products and recommendations. Once the tank is cycled, Prime or similar product should be just about the only additive you should need on a regular basis.

_________________
I was going to procrastinate today, but I will wait and do it tomorrow.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JohnnyAMH
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 895
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Richmond, Va.

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:21 am

29G42KDs wrote:
Thanks Donald and JohnnyAMH. I tested with the API test kit for the first time today. Here is what I found -

Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - between 0 and 5 ppm
PH - 7.4

Does this indicate a fully estabished bio-filter?

Yes, your tank surfaces, water and filter have cycled. Your water parameters look great. The one to watch and most likely to change now that your tank is established is Nitrates.

About the additives, I am no fan, but my ignorance (call it inexperience) makes me risk-averse and endorse the advice from the experts in the store. After all, fishes' lives are in my hands :-)

I do have a serious question though - These additive products are said to convert ammonia into a non-toxic form (not remove the ammonia, a test will still indicate ammonia). The bio-filter still has to process it to Nitrite to nitrate. Is this your understanding too?

It depends on the combinations of products used. Some will produce false ammonia readings. Most are clearly labeled with warnings to help. You have the basic idea of the ammonia to nitrite to nitrate conversion and that is all that is necessary to understand to be a successful hobbyist.

One of the store experts once advised that I can add up to 5 times the recommended quantity of such additives without harming anything. I concluded from that advice that these additives help fish (e.g. by converting ammonia to non-toxic form) but do not cause side effects/new problems.
Thanks.

Most of the store experts like to think of themselves as experts. Most are not. They are retail sales people. Even some veteran fish shop owners have different ways of doing things and don't always agree. This forum is a good place to start researching. There's a bunch of stuff elsewhere online too. I feel safe most times doubling doses of declorinator. I don't do so on purpose but as a better safe than sorry measure when having a senior moment. I would not test the five times as much theory in my tanks...  Neutral     

_________________
Keep on Fishin' fish
JohnnyAMH

     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
gerald
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 506
Join date : 2012-11-29
Location : Wake Forest, NC

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:11 pm

"Fully established bio-filter" is a RELATIVE term - It's relative to the animal load (& food load) going into the tank, and the plants' demand for ammonia & nitrAte-N. Any time you increase the fish load (food load) or decrease the photosynthesis demand for nitrogen, the filter bacteria population will need to grow to process more ammonia. So even with a "fully established biofilter", if you suddenly triple the fish load/food input, or leave a densely-planted tank dark for several days (no photosysnthesis) you could get an ammonia or nitrIte problem.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JohnnyAMH
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 895
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Richmond, Va.

PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:37 pm

gerald wrote:
"Fully established bio-filter" is a RELATIVE term - It's relative to the animal load (& food load) going into the tank, and the plants' demand for ammonia & nitrAte-N.  Any time you increase the fish load (food load) or decrease the photosynthesis demand for nitrogen, the filter bacteria population will need to grow to process more ammonia.  So even with a "fully established biofilter", if you suddenly triple the fish load/food input, or leave a densely-planted tank dark for several days (no photosysnthesis) you could get an ammonia or nitrIte problem.

Thanks for making the good points Gerald. You are so right. Special attention does need to be given when there is a large change in the Bio-Load. Fortunately, beneficial bacteria population grow and decrease to process more or less ammonia. It does cause a need for extra monitoring and likewise more frequent and larger water exchanges.  That is why I campaign against dependence on scheduled water changes instead of testing. They tend to lull one into a sense of false security...  Neutral

_________________
Keep on Fishin' fish
JohnnyAMH

     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium   

Back to top Go down
 

New 29G Planted, Community Fish Aquarium

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Central Virginia Aquarium Support :: Equipment and Tank Setups :: Tank Setups and Layout-