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 Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?

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Nick_B
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PostSubject: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:22 pm

I had a call today from my wife while at work.  I had asked her to turn on the lights to our 55g community/plant tank after lunch.  When she did, one of the bristlenose catfish was laying on top of a pile of eggs.  She was concerned about them (eggs) since the tetras started harassing the bristlenose.  I asked her to turn the light back off.  My question is ... What do I do to save and try to raise these eggs up to fry?  This tank has many other fish...corys, black neons, L200 catfish, and peppermint tetras.  I do have an empty 55g, 29g, and 10g.  Thanks.


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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:43 am

i would setup either your 10 or 29 with water from the 55 they are in now and transfer the eggs to the new tank. I would go with the 10 since its less of a water change hit on the 55. My cories laid eggs a month or so ago and the eggs got picked off one by one by the tetras and guppies. I didn't have a tank setup to transfer them too at the time. I now have a 5g setup I'm working on as a "cya" tank for things like this. Just need a cheaper heater for it since the one i had in it burned out after a month.
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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:50 am

Can you scoop a large container under the wood with eggs & dad on it, and carefully lift them out and submerge into the other tank? You can raise them without the father, but they will need some sort of fanning or current. Thats strange they were laid in an open area, not hidden in a cave (unless of course no suitable cave was available). good luck!
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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:20 am

gerald wrote:
Can you scoop a large container under the wood with eggs & dad on it, and carefully lift them out and submerge into the other tank?  You can raise them without the father, but they will need some sort of fanning or current.  Thats strange they were laid in an open area, not hidden in a cave (unless of course no suitable cave was available).  good luck!

I find it unusual too but that is based off of my experiences. That's a great picture. I had never seen a clutch of Bristlenose eggs before because mine always lay in caves. I never disturb them. I just wait on the fry to emerge. I had always heard that the eggs were large. I use clay flower pot saucers with an entrance carved in it for caves. It may help if you provide some protection and privacy. Thanks for posting... Laughing

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     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)


Last edited by JohnnyAMH on Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:51 am

Thanks everyone.  That night, I refilled an empty 10 gallon.  Since I'm using well water in the original tank, I added that and tried to match the temperature.  I placed a mature 10g sponge filter along with a small penguin filter from a yellow lab fry tank.  I picked up the driftwood and managed to keep the father on the wood until I cleared the water.  Then he wiggled off and plopped back down into the 55g.  If I would have thought about the bucket idea that Gerald suggested, that probably would have worked.  Hopefully I have enough current flow to properly simulate the father's actions.  I never planned on spawning the plecos so I didn't have caves for them, just some decent driftwood I guess.  If I had the proper cave, could I have left them in the 55 with the other fish and would they have had a decent chance at survival?  I probably would not have gone to this effort if it had not been for my wife.  She couldn't bear the thoughts of the eggs as a snack for the other fish.

More pictures (bluelight special  Smile ) prior to move...





It was in the most open area of the tank, about 3" from the tank top.

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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:55 am

This is an interesting thread. Please keep the pictures and updates coming... study

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     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)
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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:11 pm

How are things going with the eggs? Can you tell if the father Bn misses his eggs, or if he is looking for them?

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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:56 am

Sadly, not all of the eggs made it.  Fungus started but many of the fry hatched.  They still have the yolk sac.  I did remove the remaining eggs that were not viable.  Increased air sponge flow rate but it looks like I've lost some of the fry.  I've purchased Sera algae tablets, Sera fry pelletized food, and some Sera quick sinking tablets designed for bottom feeders.  While I was at PAW yesterday, the Sera rep for North America stopped by.  When should I start feeding the fry? After all the yolk sac is gone? I've also seen that people feed them blanched zucchini or cucumbers.  Any suggestions appreciated.

The father did not appear distressed about losing the eggs.  I purchased a nice piece of slate with the intention of making a pleco cave but realized I don't know how to properly make the cuts.  I'll post more pictures tomorrow.

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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:52 am

Start feeding when the egg sac is absorbed. Generally you can feed them the same things as the adults. Algae tablets and zucchini or cucucumber are great options.

Be sure to keep up with the water changes to keep the water clean.

Do you just have the fry in the tank or is the dad in their also?
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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:57 pm

Just the fry. I did drop an algae tablet in but it was too much. I think I'll try breaking one into quarters. I do have losses. I'm wondering if I should have lowered the water level or put the fry into a smaller container?

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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:15 pm

Why?

Nick_B wrote:
 I'm wondering if I should have lowered the water level or put the fry into a smaller container?
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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:02 am

I don't see any advantage in using a smaller tank unless you are protecting the fry from predators.  Zucchini is a good choice for feeding. Be sure to remove it promptly after it starts to break down...Smile

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     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)
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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:50 pm

The reason I mentioned the smaller tank was from watching a youtube video. In the video,the eggs were removed from the main tank and placed into a 16oz Solo cup and aerated with an airstone. He also used methylene blue initially on the eggs to prevent fungus from developing. Claimed a much higher success rate in the wrigglers and fry.

I have had a dismal experience with this batch. I think I have only one, maybe two, surviving fry. I'm thinking about buying a pleco cave. Kensfish.com has them at really good prices, none above $6.35. I'm not sure which would be best...the natural looking one rounded or flat-bottomed, or a terra-cotta (square or oval). Any suggestions?

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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:13 am

Aeration and methylene blue may have helped, but I cant see any reason why the small water volume would be better than a larger volume, especially once you start feeding them. I dont know if the cave shape makes any difference with Ancistrus.
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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:47 pm

I would move the pair to the 10 gallon or 29 gallon tank. I think any of the large caves from Ken's fish would likely work.

This style is probably most commonly used for BN plecos:
http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-supplies/fish-breeding-supplies/round-pleco-breeding-log-large.html
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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:30 pm

Now that you are working with just the pair and not a spawn, a good option is to move them to another tank. I think this would be especially true if there are larger carnivores in the current tank. They don’t necessarily have to be in a tank by themselves. I currently keep mine with Guppies. I defiantly suggest some sort of cave…Neutral

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     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)
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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:44 am

Thanks for all the advice/help.  It will definitely help going forward.  I have started building the parts to make a DIY sump/overflow system for the 55g they are currently housed in now.  The sump will be a 30g.  Maybe I could find someway to utilize this area for them. I'm out of tank floor space right now until I get rid of some furniture. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:12 am

Update - none of fry survived however the plecos have done spawned again.  I'm leaving the eggs where they are and letting the male do his thing.  Not sure what's going to happen since it's a community tank with ever growing angels.




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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:59 am

Those guys sure are trying hard... Cool

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     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)
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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:40 pm

I would definitely leave the male and the eggs where they are this time.  It will be more natural.  See how it works out.  You had fry from the first batch, so I'm hopeful on this one.  

Do you have lots of places in this tank where a fry might escape and hide?  Even if many do not make it, a few fry might be able to find safe places in the tank where they can grow up to a decent half inch size.

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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:02 pm

I have several pieces of driftwood with holes and craggy surfaces that could be used to hide from the angels, neons, and tetras. But I have corys who may be able to get into those places. I also use several pieces of dead coral rock in the African tanks to act as a buffer and fry in those tanks have managed to survive using the small crevices as hiding places. But, I'm concerned it may hardened the "soft" community tank water up too much. I can take a full length picture or short video of the tank and attach later when I get home to see if any improvements could be made.

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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:13 pm

Got home today and went down to get a picture of the tank for posting and I had two angelfish evidently pair off and lay eggs on one of the plants.  I made a short video and before I could upload, the angelfish pair had eaten the eggs.   Is this normal for a 1st time laying in angelfish behavior?


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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:23 pm

Yes, from what I hear. I don't have angelfish myself but this is what everyone says - that it is likely they will eat their first spawn, and the second and maybe even the third.

I read a scientific article once that said that cichlids will eat their eggs if they think the hatch is threatened. This way, the eggs don't go to waste, the female gets some extra protein, and the pair can try again when things are safer.

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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:35 pm

Deb wrote:
Yes, from what I hear.  I don't have angelfish myself but this is what everyone says - that it is likely they will eat their first spawn, and the second and maybe even the third.  

I read a scientific article once that said that cichlids will eat their eggs if they think the hatch is threatened.  This way, the eggs don't go to waste, the female gets some extra protein, and the pair can try again when things are safer.

I agree with Deb. It may take an Angelfish pair many tries before it becomes successful at raising a spawn. The likelihood becomes much greater when they are in a tank by themselves. It's very unlikely to occur in a community tank. But it's always cool to watch a pair attempt to hatch and raise a spawn. Usually the spawns become larger as the fish become better conditioned. The eggs can be removed and hatched artificially.

I would consider providing a cave in the future as a place for the male Pleco to protect and hatch the eggs and care for the young fry until they are ready to emerge on their own. Once they emerge from the cave all the hiding places will come in handy.

That's a nice looking tank. Your tank looks attractive and healthy... Smile

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     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Community Show Tank
(Swordtails, Neons, Kuhlii Loaches and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Adult Angelfish Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Fry Tank
10 gal. Planted Show Tank
(Guppies and Bristled Nose Plecos)
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PostSubject: Re: Help -- Bristlenose Eggs - - What do I do?   Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:31 am

Found this today when I went to feed my fish...



Not in the picture, but I had placed a flat rock vertically near this heater cord. I guess fish will spawn where they want to, not necessarily the place I provide. I'm curious if anyone has gotten eggs laid in a community tank to a free-swimming state. If so, how?

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