Central Virginia Aquarium Support

Central Virginia Aquarium Support is a discussion and help group for aquarium hobbyists, newcomer to advanced!
 
HomePortalCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in
... Welcome to Central Virginia Aquarium Support! ... ... Here you can discuss anything aquarium related - meet interesting folks - find equipment and trade fish! ... ... "What's Going On?" Click for a list of Local Meetings and Events ... ... *Latest fish article!* Figure-8 Puffer Article ... ... *Latest plants article!* Dwarf Hygro Article ... ... MEMBERS SHOWCASE see The HOME Page! ...

Share | 
 

 CRISIS!!!

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Liz
SupportTeam
avatar

Posts : 1213
Join date : 2012-02-04
Location : Glen Allen, VA

PostSubject: CRISIS!!!   Thu May 07, 2015 6:25 pm

Last night I did a PWC on all my tanks, and in the 150 I did only about 25%, a little bit less than normal. I added the correct amount of Prime, and they ate, and by 12 midnight the lights had gone out and they were acting completely normal up until then, and I went to bed.

They were all normal this morning, but the lights were not on. I came home from work and the geos all have their fins clamped, and they're hanging out on the bottom, some are hiding. The angels are not terribly distressed, but not moving around like normal and seem to want to hide, though they can't fit behind much in this tank.

I tested the water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and the first two are zero, the third is low, like normal. Temp is 78. Ph 7.3 like normal.

I lowered the water level way down so there is a ton of splashing and oxygenation, and that perked them up a bit, but the geos are what have me worried, with the clamped fins and hiding. This is NOT NORMAL.

The tetras are swimming around, no clamped fins, but most of them are hovering together in small groups. The BNs are scooting all over, busily working on structures like normal, though they are out and more visible than is typical in the daylight hours.

I don't really know what I should do here, if anything. The other tanks are all normal and dandy, fish acting like always.

Biting nails, wringing hands, but that doesn't help much! pale

_________________
My Blog
My Youtube Channel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
joenels
CVASMember


Posts : 86
Join date : 2014-02-18
Location : Midlothian

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Thu May 07, 2015 6:46 pm

Any chance of stray voltage?try unplugging filters and heaters and see if they perk up.Other than that I am not sure if you have a contaminant in the water the tests wont pick up.Even if you dont I wouldnt think a large water change could do anything but help unless its the tap water thats contaminated.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Liz
SupportTeam
avatar

Posts : 1213
Join date : 2012-02-04
Location : Glen Allen, VA

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Thu May 07, 2015 6:49 pm

I'll unplug everything and see what they do - that's a good idea.

I was getting ready to do a big PWC (my go-to solution) but wondered if it was the tap, though my other tanks look fine and dandy.

_________________
My Blog
My Youtube Channel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
joenels
CVASMember


Posts : 86
Join date : 2014-02-18
Location : Midlothian

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Thu May 07, 2015 6:54 pm

Also double dosing prime is perfectly safe in my experience...I do it on all my tanks with weekly 75% water changes.I figure better too much prime than not enough...found out the hard way what happens with the latter.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Liz
SupportTeam
avatar

Posts : 1213
Join date : 2012-02-04
Location : Glen Allen, VA

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Thu May 07, 2015 7:36 pm

I'm going to throw a bunch of carbon in the smaller filter and see if that helps.

_________________
My Blog
My Youtube Channel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cholt
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 383
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : Lynchburg, VA

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Thu May 07, 2015 7:50 pm

Was your 150 the first tank you did a PWC on? If so it could have been something in the hose possibly from sitting for the time between PWCs.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Liz
SupportTeam
avatar

Posts : 1213
Join date : 2012-02-04
Location : Glen Allen, VA

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Thu May 07, 2015 8:18 pm

Well, let's see, it has been almost two hours, and the fish are going bananas when I approach and poking around (when I peek around the corner) like complete normal. bounce Dance!

The geos seemed to take things the hardest, and were actually flashing, I noticed, so there must have been a toxic level of something in the water that my tests did not pick up. Just now I used a bit more Prime than usual and changed 50% of the water, in addition to the large carbon pillow in the XP4. You'd think the tetras or the rams would be the most sensitive fish in the tank, but that didn't seem to be the case.

I think all of these measures have done the trick, for now. I'll leave the carbon in for another day or two, then remove it.

So, my test kits could be off (possible - they're not expired but are close. I NEVER test my water!) or there could have been something in the tap water, or, what I'm wondering, is that something got into the tank just for that particular PWC last night, that didn't get into the other tanks, like unknowingly picked up on my rigid siphon hose, perhaps.

It is also perfectly possible that I did not dose enough Prime, but usually when I have done that the water gets a bit cloudy and the fish are all at the surface. Since I use a big jug of Prime, I use one capful for the 150, since I'm usually doing a 30-50% change, and that amount treats 100 gallons of new water. I consider that overdosing, but it is how I've done it for years upon years. Maybe I got distracted last night and dosed the tank like I was changing water in the snail tank? (10 gal) Obviously something went wrong!

Anything is possible - I tend to multitask, and the 150 was the last tank I did, rather than the first tank like I usually do.

It has been so long since I had a tank problem like this, so I really had to dig deep to remember standard protocols, but the first thing was lowering the water level, which caused splashing and oxygenation, and that helped, so the problem was something that interfered with proper respiration, so that's a clue. Changing a lot of water and using carbon, and using extra Prime (detoxifies the usual suspects) seemed to solve the problem.

I did unplug everything from the tank and left it like that for about 15 minutes, and it did not seem to have an effect, but I will add that to my considerations in the future! Thanks Joenels.

_________________
My Blog
My Youtube Channel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Liz
SupportTeam
avatar

Posts : 1213
Join date : 2012-02-04
Location : Glen Allen, VA

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Thu May 07, 2015 8:20 pm

@cholt wrote:
Was your 150 the first tank you did a PWC on? If so it could have been something in the hose possibly from sitting for the time between PWCs.

I missed this post, but it was actually the LAST of the 4 tanks, which means I was a good hour or more into the process, and I was thinking maybe I was getting tired (I stay up late doing this stuff....) and serviced the tanks out of my usual routine. I was thinking maybe something got on my hose or siphon tube as I was moving from one part of the house to the other, dragging my Python along behind me.

_________________
My Blog
My Youtube Channel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
thegundog
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 633
Join date : 2012-03-04
Location : Spotsylvania, VA

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Fri May 08, 2015 9:19 pm

Hi Liz - everything ok now?

_________________
-- Tracey --
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Deb
Administrator
avatar

Posts : 1996
Join date : 2012-02-04
Location : Richmond, VA

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Fri May 08, 2015 11:22 pm

Hi, Liz, also wondering how things are today and wanted to mention the power outage of May 6.

Don't know if you experienced it out your way, but over near me the power was out from about 6:30 pm to 7:50 pm on May 6. Did your power go out? If so, could it be that when the power came back on, and the filters powered up, that something toxic or undesirable shot into the water? Something that would have been harmless had it circulated the normal way, but when expelled after sitting for an hour in the filter return, wasn't? And, along the same lines, could your standpipe be involved at all?

_________________
My Tanks. 
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cvas.forumotion.com/portal
JohnnyAMH
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 895
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Richmond, Va.

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Sat May 09, 2015 6:00 pm

I'm hoping things have calmed down for you. Usually when I have a problem with a water change it happens almost instantly. That does not seem the be the case with your problem but who knows. When I have a problem my first line of defense is the same as yours, a water change. I'm hoping that your next update will proclaim that all is well... Neutral

_________________
Keep on Fishin' fish
JohnnyAMH

     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Angelfish Show Tank
(Angelfish, Guppies, Neons and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Growout Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Growout Tank
10 gal. Planted Bristled Nose Plecos and Guppy Show Tank
(Guppies, Bristled Nose Plecos and kuhli Loaches)


Last edited by JohnnyAMH on Mon May 11, 2015 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Liz
SupportTeam
avatar

Posts : 1213
Join date : 2012-02-04
Location : Glen Allen, VA

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Sun May 10, 2015 7:54 pm

Sad to say things are not completely corrected, though no worse. Geos hanging out on the bottom most of the time, fins clamped, everybody else kind of just hanging there, not doing much. Water is crystal clear. They all rush over to be fed, so it can't be THAT bad, but there is definitely something wrong.

I replaced my test kits and, again, don't see anything abnormal, except the ammonia test, if you squint and move it around in different lights MIGHT be a touch past the canary yellow of dead normal, but honestly I can't really tell for sure (I know you've been there!).

I've done another big PWC and added media from another tank, just in case there's a bit of ammonia stressing them. I cannot figure this out.

_________________
My Blog
My Youtube Channel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JohnnyAMH
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 895
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Richmond, Va.

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Tue May 12, 2015 10:58 pm

I'm hoping that no news is good news... Neutral

_________________
Keep on Fishin' fish
JohnnyAMH

     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Angelfish Show Tank
(Angelfish, Guppies, Neons and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Growout Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Growout Tank
10 gal. Planted Bristled Nose Plecos and Guppy Show Tank
(Guppies, Bristled Nose Plecos and kuhli Loaches)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Liz
SupportTeam
avatar

Posts : 1213
Join date : 2012-02-04
Location : Glen Allen, VA

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Tue May 12, 2015 11:34 pm

No, sad to say, I'm actually up later than normal, wringing my hands over the tank. We have nothing showing up on water tests but the geophagus are all quite stressed. Clamped fins, resting on the bottom. The other fish are acting essentially normal in terms of behavior. Even the geos rush up to eat, though (not feeding very much at all currently) so that is encouraging.

The truly wretched thing is that I spy ICH on some of the tetras. This should be no surprise - ich is present, most likely, but healthy fish have no problems. Something has stressed the fish and upset the balance. I have not dealt with ich in nearly 20 years, though, so this is quite an event. I've cranked the heat and added salt, since I keep marine mix for my brackish setup. I lowered the water level after a small pwc, and removed the carbon from the filter in case I have to resort to copper/malachite green treatment.

I guess we should never get complacent so this is a wake up call! I have had few problems for so long, relying on my maintenance routine and being extremely lucky. I do wonder what was the original issue, since I don't have any water tests showing a problem, but problem there is. Wah!

_________________
My Blog
My Youtube Channel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JohnnyAMH
CVASMember
avatar

Posts : 895
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Richmond, Va.

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Wed May 13, 2015 11:13 pm

Hang in there Liz. What you said is so true, even for an advanced hobbyist like yourself. It is so easy to fall into a maintenance routine and become somewhat complacent. I have done it and paid the price. Your comment is good advice for everyone. There have also been times when I have done too much, trying to make things happen instead of letting things happen. This is a challenging hobby... Neutral

_________________
Keep on Fishin' fish
JohnnyAMH

     ~~~ My Aquariums ~~~
55 gal. Planted Angelfish Show Tank
(Angelfish, Guppies, Neons and Bristled Nose Plecos)
30 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Growout Tank
20 gal. Bare Bottom Angelfish Breeder Tank
10 gal. Bare Bottom  Angelfish Growout Tank
10 gal. Planted Bristled Nose Plecos and Guppy Show Tank
(Guppies, Bristled Nose Plecos and kuhli Loaches)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Liz
SupportTeam
avatar

Posts : 1213
Join date : 2012-02-04
Location : Glen Allen, VA

PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   Thu May 14, 2015 6:54 am

Thanks, Johnny!

Things have turned the corner, so to speak. Last night when I got home from work the fish were acting completely back to normal - all of them. One of the angel pairs was tending a batch of eggs, so they must be feeling a little better, right? Laughing

I am still treating for ich, but no cysts are visible on any of the fish. Considering the life cycle I'll keep up the treatment for a total of 6 days, just to be sure. I've got the temp up to 86 (these wild cichlids are really digging this, I think) and have the water level down with plenty of splashing of the filter returns.

I have had this tank overstocked, and I think, ultimately, this was probably the biggest factor here. I probably underdosed Prime at the time of the water change, the fish became mildly stressed, and there are too many fish in the tank, making matters worse.

Last night I removed most of the Bentosi type tetras from the tank. I have several Hyphessobrycon species that are very similar, the pinkish, reddish ones with small markings in either black or white and being sold as "peppermint" tetras, plus a bleeding heart that is much larger than the others but has a similar look. I've got them in a temporary Q tank, still treating for ich, and I'll give them to my nephew for his SA tank. I also have pristella tetras (P. maxillaris) and a half-dozen black neons (H. herbertaxelrodi) in this tank, which seem much better suited than the red tetras, which are much more timid and hang out against the background of the tank much of the time. The other two tetra types school around better and seem more comfortable with the boisterous cichlids, so I'm leaving them in.

In addition, I may be interested in divesting myself of one of the angel pairs. Two breeding pairs of angels in one tank is certainly interesting, and there has been no violence (I consider this to be pretty unusual!), though they do spar with the other fish from time to time when they have eggs. I have a total of six angels, two breeding pairs and two singletons.

I will try to get a video of the tank soon, though we've got a busy music festival weekend ahead. rockin\'

Thanks for all the support and interest! It is SO nice to be able to come here and commiserate with other fishkeepers who feel my pain, lol. My family really couldn't tell what was going on, or even that there was a "crisis" afoot, so though they knew I was distressed about it, they couldn't really relate. Rolling Eyes

_________________
My Blog
My Youtube Channel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: CRISIS!!!   

Back to top Go down
 

CRISIS!!!

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Central Virginia Aquarium Support :: Freshwater :: General Freshwater-