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 Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)

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frodo11
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PostSubject: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:39 pm

My first tank (5 gal) was in the late 50s thru mid 60s ... tanks again (2x10 gal) early 80s (for our 1st child) took tanks down when we moved and set up again mid/late 80s through mid 90s.

Saw a 12 gal Fluval Edge a couple of months ago and thought it looked just too cool ... am now in my 6th week of fish-in cycle (4 Zebras). Tank chemistry seems to be progressing (ammonia staying low and still no trace of nitrites nor nitrates) and doing at least 25% water change each evening.

Looking forward to reading about other local fish keeper's successes, trials, tribulations and receiving advice & suggestions.
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:47 pm

Welcome frodo11!
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Ben
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:47 pm

Welcome to the site. Sounds like your tank is doing well. I look forward to hearing more about your tank as it progresses.

You will get to read plenty about our trials and tribulations. There is also a lot of advice to be given from the membership here. Feel free to ask any questions you may have.
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Flippercon
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:53 pm

Welcom! It sounds like your cycle is stalling. 6 weeks is a long time for no nitrites or nitrates to pop up. What do you have as filtration and what is in it (Media) ,also what test kit are you using and is it expired? I have heard of cycles taking long In the nitrite stage but never on the ammonia stage. Where are you located. Maybe you can get some established media from a store or member to speed it up.
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frodo11
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:46 pm

@Flippercon wrote:
Welcom! It sounds like your cycle is stalling. 6 weeks is a long time for no nitrites or nitrates to pop up. What do you have as filtration and what is in it (Media) ,also what test kit are you using and is it expired? I have heard of cycles taking long In the nitrite stage but never on the ammonia stage. Where are you located. Maybe you can get some established media from a store or member to speed it up.

A brief history:
Location: Midlothian (Richmond)
Water testing: API Master Freshwater kit (expiration dates between 2015 & 2016)
Filter with Fluval Edge sponge, carbon and bio-media, sponge on end if intake tube
Dosing water changes with Prime
PH falling between 6.6 and 7.6, generally right at 7.0

Set up 2/11/12 ... initial dose of StressZyme then daily dose Stability for a week
2/16/12 - 4 Zebras introduced
2/16 through 2/22/12 - water readings all zero, tested every 12 hours
2/22/12 25% water change & Stability dose
2/23/12 to 2/26/12 out of town; family member fed & dosed with Stability 2/24, 2/25 & 2/26
Evening 2/26/12 - ammonia: 1.0 all other 0, 25% water change & StressZyme dose
2/27 & 2/28 ammonia: 1.0 (2 tests/day), all others 0, daily 25% water change
2/29 to 3/2/12 ammonia .5 (2 tests/day), all others 0, daily 25% water change, 3/2 StressZyme
3/3 to 3/5/12 ammonia .25 (2 tests/day), all others 0, daily 25% water change, 3/5 Stability
3/4/12 Introduced 4 Cory cats & 2 Mystery snails
3/6 & 3/7/12 ammonia .5, nitrites 0, nitrAtes >0 and <5, daily 25% water change

Clearly, I'm charting everything (anal tendencies)
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Flippercon
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:10 am

It is just odd its taking so long. It sounds like you are doing everything right. I have had my cycle stall at the nitrite stage (usually a week into cycling) ,the longest it took was 4 weeks the shortest was 13 days. Please keep this updated I would Like to know the outcome.


Last edited by Flippercon on Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:44 am

Hello Frodo11. Welcome to CVAS!!! Glad ya got back into the hobby. Make yourself at home.

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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:16 am

Just a thought, but you probably should toss the carbon out. It does mostly what the prime already does. You may see an initial ammonia spike, but it's not because the carbon was removed, but instead the bacteria on it removed. I'd even forgo the stresszyme. Instead try to keep the ammonia around .5 or less. If you have a reading of .25, don't change the water as you need to feed this bacteria.

I run no carbon in any of my four tanks. Also to note carbon does leach phosphates (small but does) which won't really harm the fish, but may cause an algae issue (seems to still be up for debate). You don't need the phosphates unless you have live plants, in which case hopefully they would absorb the amount created.

Keep us posted on what ever you decide!
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:59 am

Of course all it took was for me to mention last night, and you folks to notice, the loooong time it was taking to get any indication of the cycle beginning and ...

This morning I took my usual water samples and put in the drops to test for ammonia and nitrIte, went to get a cup of coffee, returned, noticed that the ammonia was .25 (good) and lo and behold the expected light blue nitrIte sample was, dare I believe my old eyes, light purple (reading .25)! Immediately tested for nitrAtes: >0 and <5.

The bugs are there! And they are starting to eat! Gave, what I thought to be a helping boost of StressZyme (hadn't read mpowers' post above yet) ... I had been thinking about pulling the carbon but till we get the tank to demonstrate some level of stability, think I'll leave all as is.

Probably will pass on the water change tonight. What do you folks think?

Thanks for the welcoming words, advice & comments
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:08 am

Sounds like a good plan. Another good suggestion is not to test nitrates untill your nitrites test 0ppm. The reason I say this is because the readings swing and the cycle will be complete once you see no nitrites. Also of you pay attention to the amounts of liquid in the test bottles, the nitrates take the most to test, but they give you the least amount of test liquids in the nitrate bottles. So that being said you can save some money by skipping the nitrate test.
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:16 am

sounds like things are changing for the brtter . So what kind of fish do ya plan on adding to the tank?

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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:30 am

Flipper: Thanks for the advice ... will hold off testing nitrates for a while (only tested occasionally anyway)

Koolaid: With a 12 gal Edge and 4 Zebras, 4 "salt and pepper" Corys and 2 snails, not much more room in the tank ... not that I intended to sacrifice them but I got the Zebras 'cause they were supposed to be hardy and tolerant of "bad" water conditions and this was a new tank going into a fish-in cycle ... nevertheless, those rascals are rockin' ... got the Corys cause I think they are cool (and were $1/each @ PetsMart) but don't have much fish color in the tank ... think I can squeeze a few more fish in the tank when the cycle is complete? Any suggestions?
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:39 pm

ok I didn't know ya had the zebras. If ya want to add something nice but small take a look into some blue rams or any of the rams. They are small but have pretty colors and they are active.

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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:57 pm

Welcome !!!

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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:25 pm

As far as stock goes, Frodo, I think for a twelve you are at capacity. Maybe you could squeak by with a handful of neons, or some other form of very small community fish, but twelve gallons were not meant to take on the bioloads cichlids tend to produce. That is why for even the smallest cichlids it is recommended to keep them in at least a 20, per pair, at best. Larger tanks are easier to maintain and overfilter, whereas the smaller ones are extremely limited.

Not to step on toes, koolaid, but out of all the dwarfs, I would least reccommemd a ram. They are very susceptible to disease and their water conditions have to be just right, or they will get sick and die. Flip and I had the absolute hardest time keeping them alive in a community environment. They do better with other slow moving softwater cichlids, ie discus and angels. While they are more peaceful than other dwarfs, they are not meant to be in an active community.

I would say, frodo, you've got your stock on point. Once it is done cycling you can probably trade the zebras in for something else, but I'm personally a fan of them (don't let flip catch me say that;) ) cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:31 pm

Also just to point out with rams and corys. They are not a good mix unless you have a big footprint with enough hiding places. Most dwarf cichlids get quite aggressive when breeding and they can do some damage to corys.

I think you could get away with mixing a few endler's livebearers in with that mix. Especially if you went with a trio of males since they stay smaller than females.
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frodo11
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:21 am

After the ram suggestion did a little on-line research ... the ram's requirements seemed to be a tad particular although the color I was looking for was certainly there ...

Then got the idea for male guppies or endlers, there is your color but there is something about having only one sex of livebearers ... ya gotta have boys and girls - and that sure won't work out in a 12 gal tank ...

Which brought me back to my original thought 3 or 4 cardinals ...

To think that this whole episode started out with me actually purchasing and bringing home a 46 gal bow front & stand ... had all the other pieces priced and was ready to order (Fluval 306, Hydor in line 300W heater, double LED lighting, etc.) ... then my wife happened to ask how much the whole thing would weigh (was going on the 2nd floor of the house in my "man cave") ... after 40 years of marriage one learns when to fold up the tents, beat a retreat and live to fight again another day ... the long shot prospect of the tank "repositioning" itself in the dining room was not something I wanted to hear about ... tank & stand back in the car and back to the store ...
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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:59 am

Glad you found us. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Back To Fishkeeping (frodo11 Midlothian Richmond)   Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:07 am

Aw frodo, sorry to hear that, maybe go for a 29 instead. If you're fond of the rams, a 20 high with a couple rams and a couple angels and maybe a pleco would look really nice. A 29 has a little bit better of a footprint. Also you could look into maybe some tanganyikan shell dwellers, mark above me has a great selection. Another dwarf you could consider is the kribensis (would have to have either all males or all females or you're stuck with a species only tank due to breeding aggression lol) or even some of the apistogramma. I also stumbled upon badis badis fish yesterday on liveaquaria...absolutely beautiful little fish, I don't think they are categorized as cichidae though. I need to do some more research. But a 20/29 certainly won't weigh too much for the mancave;)

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