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 Trip to Animal Jungle

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Flippercon
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PostSubject: Trip to Animal Jungle   Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:23 pm

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Ok I went Aj today to just look around and took some pics. My girlfriend loves catfish but I don't have good luck with them so I steer clear. Anyways she hates plecos and I love them. She went to animal jungle today and got me two rhino plecos and really got into the ones she saw. So here are the ones she liked.







This one I forgot to take a picture of the tag but it was like almost $300. Nice looking pleco.
Pardon the horrible pics they were snapped off my phone .
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:39 pm

Here is a pic with the flash on. you can see the actual color better. It is definitely black with white spots. Hope this helps.
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:35 pm

One thing about food - most plecos are NOT exclusively vegetarian, although Ancistrus (bristlenose) species come the closest. I suggested the zucchini when I thought your catfish was a Bn with a sluggish digestion. Now, it seems pretty certain that it is not a Bn, although it may still be stopped up. To relieve this in omnivores small shelled creatures, such as daphnia, are good foods to offer.

A good regular diet for this fish, once it's healthy again, is a mixed omnivore diet of a wide variety including some frozen foods, such as bloodworms and crustaceans. Offer zucchini twice a week. My clown plecos (Panaque) love shelled peas from frozen.

At this point, I think we've got the ID narrowed down to either a Hypancistrus species (L201 or similar) or a Leporacanthicus species (L240 or similar). If it's got hairs, then it's probably almost full grown which makes it more likely to be a Hypancistrus, but we'll see. I posted some of the pix on a catfish website where I'm a member. Hope that's okay. The folks there are really helpful. Very Happy The last pic with the flash is pretty good.






Last edited by Ancistra' on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:39 pm

Thank you so much Ancistra', We have a ton of other questions for you about all of them. Thanks for putting the pictures up on the forum, I found the post searching in google lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:42 pm

Sounds great, cant wait to hear what they say. I was reading about fat female plecos and if its unreleased eggs, they die and I have been freaking out all day:( ive grown quite fond of this particular pleco. I hope it gets better:(

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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:44 pm

It is so great to have you on here Ancistra' with all your knowledge and contacts within catfish. Hope all goes well with your pleco Jen.
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:54 pm

I looked at profiles of the L-240 and it look a lot like this fish! We read that it is a carnivore and eats meaty foods like shrimp, krill, mussels, pieces of fish, blood worms, mosquito larvae, sinking carnivore wafers etc. Since it is soo fat Jen thinks AJ mis-Identified the fish as Ancistrus, and they were feeding it a veggie diet. This might explain a lot.
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:41 pm

Just to follow up on my above post about food - do offer a little fresh frozen food at the next meal but do not reuse previously thawed food. Keep an eye on the vent, if you can. Trouble signs would be a red discoloration or a discharge near the vent. There may not be much we can do if that happens but if you have a small QT tank set up, that would be good.

If your fish is a female AND in the flowerpot then the chubbiness might mean she is ready to spawn and is hoping for a male to come by. Seriously, I hope that's what it is but we have to consider bloat, which is why I'm discussing food so much.

Saw your latest post as I was about to post!

Flippercon wrote:
I looked at profiles of the L-240 and it look a lot like this fish! We read that it is a carnivore and eats meaty foods like shrimp, krill, mussels, pieces of fish, blood worms, mosquito larvae, sinking carnivore wafers etc.
Yeah, that's what I was saying in my post before about food and repeating above. They are more omnivores than carnivores but either way a varied diet is the best thing for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:48 pm

Thanks for all the helpful info Ancistra'. We are hoping for the best. We have it in a 29 qt with the Ancistrus ranunculus at the moment but will be removing it to a different tank in a few weeks (qt) unless aggression is an issue. They seem to stick by each other and don't seem to mind the other.
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:54 pm

NOOOO, if its a female holding eggs she will die:-( I havent read one post on any other forum with the fish of the same symptoms where at the end of the post it lived:-( I'm so devastated right now. Unless I can find a boy of the same species in a timely manner...she would most likely die:-(

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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:23 am

Ben wrote:
It is so great to have you on here Ancistra' with all your knowledge and contacts within catfish.
It's great to have the network, Ben. We can't do it alone. The accumulated knowledge of all the hobbyists who went before us is the key to success in the hobby! sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:00 pm

Jen, I am literally going out the door but before I go I want to say that we are now pretty much certain that you have a Leporacanthicus cf. galaxias L240 and at 5" this fish would most likely be too young to be gravid (full of eggs).

I suspect intestinal blockage so try the frozen foods I mentioned and the peas, if it will not eat the zucchini. Make sure the water circulation is good. Let me know if it eats and what it eats.

Also, please note any behavior and post it here.
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:09 pm

Ancistra' wrote:
Jen, I am literally going out the door but before I go I want to say that we are now pretty much certain that you have a Leporacanthicus cf. galaxias L240 and at 5" this fish would most likely be too young to be gravid (full of eggs).

I suspect intestinal blockage so try the frozen foods I mentioned and the peas, if it will not eat the zucchini. Make sure the water circulation is good. Let me know if it eats and what it eats.

Also, please note any behavior and post it here.
Very Happy

We will keep you updated on the progress. It did not even wink at the zucchini but its just getting use to the new environment. We got a ton of veggies for the plecos and I will be getting more food for them tonight. It pretty much just sits in one spot and waddles over to a new spot under something. When you say they like flow is it a lot? I have a maxijet 1200 I can stick in the talk but its a 29 and it will be a strong current.
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:12 pm

One of the two fish or both are eating sinking wafers (Hikari). Not sure which one at the moment lights are out and when I can see in they are gone.
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:29 am

The zucchini was for when we thought it was a bristlenose. Most likely, L240 will not eat the zucchini so offer it some other roughage instead. Try frozen or guaranteed parasite free freeze-dried daphnia. Shelled frozen peas might be accepted.

Do not increase the water circulation to maxi-jet levels but, if your filter has this option, increase it somewhat. This makes it easier for the fish to breathe.

You have two different plecos in the 29 with entirely different feeding requirements.
The ranunculus (Bn) will appreciate the fresh veggies but its main diet should be a good quality spirulina-based wafer like Omega One Veggie Rounds.

The L240 is primarily a meat eater. Give him a meat-based wafer for the main diet and meaty frozen foods twice a week. This would be things like bloodworms, brine shrimp, etc. Frozen is fine. A little fresh fish or a cut up shrimp once in a while is fine, too.

So far, the behavior you describe for the L240 does not sound like a fish in distress.
Have you seen any signs of a normal digestion eg., is the fish eliminating properly?
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:49 am

Hey ancistra! I have noticed no visible signs of elimination from either pleco in the tank. However, where the chubby one was hanging out in the pot, it is now moving sand around and digging holes. Very interesting behavior for a pleco. We are going to put the vegetarian in a diff tank, just haven't quite decided which one. If Brian doesn't go tomorrow, I am going on Sunday to get some frozen bloodworms and some daphnia. Thanks for all your help, we will keep you posted on Chubb's progress. I read that if it was a female with eggs, it kills them in 24 hours, so I think we are in the clear for that. Phwew.

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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:12 am

Ancistra' wrote:

The ranunculus (Bn) will appreciate the fresh veggies but its main diet should be a good quality spirulina-based wafer like Omega One Veggie Rounds.

The L240 is primarily a meat eater. Give him a meat-based wafer for the main diet and meaty frozen foods twice a week. This would be things like bloodworms, brine shrimp, etc. Frozen is fine. A little fresh fish or a cut up shrimp once in a while is fine, too.
I will be going to the pet store to get these foods as soon as they open! Thank you again Ancistra for the much needed knowledge.
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:27 am

that is a great spot to have close by. I might have to swing by there myself once I come to that side of the water.


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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:07 am

Quote :
I read that if it was a female with eggs, it kills them in 24 hours, so I think we are in the clear for that. Phwew.
Agreed!

This is why getting the ID was so important. Most plecos will be at least two thirds of their adult size before they are sexually mature. At least, this is what we hobbyists have noted over the years. At 5" your L240 is most likely too small to be full of eggs and therefore the most likely cause of this chubby condition is improper feeding. You will soon take care of that! ThumbsUp

The other, less easily solved cause, could be intestinal parasites. However, if this was the case we'd be seeing behavior like hanging out in the open listlessly, staying in one place breathing heavy, and general sick behavior.

The behavior you describe sounds like a busy little fish who is interested in its surroundings. Hanging out in the pot, digging, thrashing sand around, changing places and darting away at "danger" would all be good signs, so it seems like things are going well, atm.

Keep us posted!
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:15 am

Quote :

The other, less easily solved cause, could be intestinal parasites.
Very Happy
I fear this myself ! I know they are scaleless so meds are tough to work with. What meds are recommend for internal parasites in plecos? Maybe I should get some to be ready just in case.
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:34 pm

Flipper, I will be honest. I have not used meds in quite a while - years. My wild-caught plecos are treated with a mixture of oak leaf and other leaf extracts which I make myself as soon as they come in to my house. In the aquarium, I keep the dissolved organics high, even for fish from clear waters. It's our extremely sterile tap water that makes our tanks unfriendly for many if not most wild fish from South America and Asia.

I will not be able to advise you on meds but as your fish is not showing symptoms, there is no reason to treat. I'm not a fan of pre-emptive treatments with harsh anti-fungals or anti-bacterials. I know the fish importers use them routinely and you will see testimony of this system on other websites, but I think more than not these things kill the fish. Maybe large food fish can take it but not your little 5"-er.

But please note: I am not saying YOU should not use meds, I'm just saying I DON'T use them and can't advise you.

Internal problems whether parasites or an overrun of the wrong bacteria would make your fish act "sick." It would exhibit some of the symptoms I listed in the above posts - including the soreness or redness mentioned. The anal area would be one place to look, but bloody spots could show up anywhere on the fish - the flanks, radiating out into the dorsal fin, and anywhere on the ventral side. Might be hard to see on such a dark fish, though.

If your fish is not acting listless and uninterested in what's going on, then I would not suspect an internal problem.

For now, I would collect a couple of oak leaves from outside, rinse them well with plain water, and add them to the QT tank. I would say 2 leaves for every ten gallons.
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:48 pm

Sounds like a good thing to try out. I see Liz does this too! I will look for an oak tree in the neighborhood and grab about 6 leaves or so since it is a 29g. When I pick the leaves should they be dry? semi-dry? with or without color? thanks in advance.
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:19 pm

Ok went back to AJ to look for food and found myself looking at the plecos again. They had some really neat new ones. Again I forgot my camera so the pics are not the best. These pictures do not do them justice. lol!



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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:26 pm

Just got back from All the pet stores in the general area. Man it started snowing hard too! I got some omega one veggie rounds for the Ancistrus ranunculus and the rest of the BN we have. I also got some blood worms to go with the frozen daphnia we have. I was looking at Hikari's massivore delite but the ingredients are too much meal for my preference. Do they make a meat round/wafer for catfish or bottom dwellers?
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:31 pm

I also have another question on the orange seem pleco? I know the tag said L-81 but on CP an L-81 is a gold nugget. I have seen L-106 but which is it?
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PostSubject: Re: Trip to Animal Jungle   Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:33 pm

Flippercon wrote:
... When I pick the leaves should they be dry? semi-dry? with or without color? thanks in advance.

Don't pick them! What you want is leaves that have fallen from the tree - dead leaves, already brown. If they are on the ground wet, no problem. You will rinse them anyway in regular tap water to get off all outside debris, mud, etc.

It takes them about a day or more to sink. You can add them to the aquarium and let them float around or you can weigh them down with gravel or something.

They will naturally decompose over time. You may not like this look. It's better to remove them and replace with new ones each week.

Almond leaves are good, too. Liz and I order them from Thailand. They are not expensive.
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