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 Swim bladder disease

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Nereus7
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PostSubject: Swim bladder disease   Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:49 am

Ok so I've been snooping again. Been reading about how some people believe fish can get swim bladder disease from eating food off the surface of the water and swallowing some air. What do you think? - N
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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:51 am

yes. that is true. often times they try to suck the food off the top and end up getting air as well. to avoid this i pput my hand under the waters surface and relsease the food. let me know what you guys do! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:52 am

thats especially true with gold fish. i had a goldfish whom the lady before me had fed on the surface and the poor thing couldnt go to the bottom... every time it tried it bobbed back up to the top.
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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:33 pm

I am not positive about this theory. This is something that is frequently discussed with African cichlids and goldfish.

I personally don't think fish ought to have a problem eating from the surface, since that's what they'd do in the wild. Most wild fish eat bugs and such from the surface, so they ought to be able to handle expelling air that may be consumed, since that's what they'd naturally do. It is similar to the debate about large dogs needing their food bowls elevated, when in the wild a dog would eat straight off the ground.

Most aquarium species are a huge long way away from their wild ancestors (like dogs are so unlike their wild ancestors it is difficult to compare!), so it might be related to being captive-bred.

I tend to believe that swim bladder problems are diet related (constipation) as well as genetic deformities from line breeding, especially in the case of goldfish, which are notorious for this issue and it is almost always due to genetic damage to the fragile swim bladder organ. Internal parasites can cause it too. High quality food and a varied diet can help prevent it, as well as close attention to high water quality and stability of water quality.

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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:24 pm

I agree with Liz.
There are fish that feed at the top, middle and bottom of the tank. Having raised all three I have not seen any changes, problems or issues when a fish that normally feeds at the top decides to peck at the bottom, nor issues with bottom and or middle feeders who chose to go to the top to forage. I also agree that good quality food, varying diet, as well as most importantly no over feeding, will prevent most intestinal issues. I rather think swim bladder issues are more a result of injury or parasite. Mbunas and Peacocks are normally middle eaters, but due to aggressiveness food rarely gets that far down before they have it gone. I have not seen issues with them either. They gulp food, inhale air, splash, and etc. during feeding and seem to be quite content afterward.
I sometimes think because top feeders are often given floating food they over eat which certainly will cause all kinds of intestinal issues. The food seems to stay there longer and they look and act like a Hoover vacuum until it's gone.

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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:16 pm

I think I depends on diet as well. Maybe even something to do with the protiens at the surface. My peacock bass only eats floating pellets from the surface. No problems so far for the last 9 weeks. My planted community gets fed flake at the surface and same outcome.
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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:12 am

I hear you. I can imagine if any infection got to a swim bladder all chaos would ensue. I usually do like you're saying Robby but my fish are on my fingers usually before I get them all the way in and they knock a few floaters out. What started me asking is I feed these crisps which all sink except the red ones Sad I'll have to phase those out of the menu.

Flip, when you mention surface protiens are you talking about bad water quality in general or it being like me drinking a skillet of bacon grease? No bueno, especially for herbivores?

Liz with you mentioning fish hitting the surface in nature and flip you mentioning your bass it throws fishing into my mind. Top water baits and bass skying out of the water nailing them. What about catfish and other bottom dwellers? I don't think I've seen catfish sky out, I've seen them kind of gulping at the surface. I wonder if bass etc have evolved the ablility to burp Smile

I couldn't tell you up from down with goldfish, other than I can point one out when I see it.
It kind of makes me wonder if it might be something more than swallowing a bubble with what ya'll are saying. Have ya'll ever had it actually happen? - N


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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:22 pm

I have goldfish, the round ball-like fancy kind with the fan-tail, that suffer from it periodically, where they cannot swim down from the surface and bob like a balloon. I feed peas and it resolves. Since then, I have been giving them veggie pellets (floating, incidentally!) and it seems to help prevent it. I still feed blanched peeled peas from time to time, since they love them so much.

Also, after this discussion I have to mention that my wild angel always takes a very long "drink" of air at the surface after eating. It is just like how my dogs always drink a lot of water after they eat their food. The fish will eat normally, then when he's had enough he sits at the surface and seems to be gulping air in a drinking fashion (not gasping for air but taking "drinks"), though I'm not sure what he's doing, exactly. All my wild angels did this, and it can go on for 10 minutes after eating. After that they swim down and poke around like usual. None has ever had a problem with their swim bladder so far, *knock wood* after 4 years.

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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:40 pm

well the thing is, in the wild we wouldnt be able to see if they have swim bladder issues or not lol. half of them out there might have it. i can see your point but i feed non floating material just to be safe. your right though, there are many theories on this subject and it would be interesting to do a study
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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:17 am

@Nereus7 wrote:
I hear you. I can imagine if any infection got to a swim bladder all chaos would ensue. I usually do like you're saying Robby but my fish are on my fingers usually before I get them all the way in and they knock a few floaters out. What started me asking is I feed these crisps which all sink except the red ones Sad I'll have to phase those out of the menu.

Flip, when you mention surface protiens are you talking about bad water quality in general or it being like me drinking a skillet of bacon grease? No bueno, especially for herbivores?

Liz with you mentioning fish hitting the surface in nature and flip you mentioning your bass it throws fishing into my mind. Top water baits and bass skying out of the water nailing them. What about catfish and other bottom dwellers? I don't think I've seen catfish sky out, I've seen them kind of gulping at the surface. I wonder if bass etc have evolved the ablility to burp Smile

I couldn't tell you up from down with goldfish, other than I can point one out when I see it.
It kind of makes me wonder if it might be something more than swallowing a bubble with what ya'll are saying. Have ya'll ever had it actually happen? - N

The surface proteins is that oily film at the surface of the water. Not bad quality water just not skimmed.
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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:59 am

I hear you, I had to cut back on the bloodworms because they would funk up the water and get nasty. Really rich, they must taste pretty good, like a creme bru lay. I should try some sometime just to see...N

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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:05 am

Liz the drinking air thing is funny, I have a fat chupakabra, half pit half lab brindle dog that always hits up his water bowl after eating, and drools it half way across the kitchen.. I like a good drink of water after I eat too... we're all the same Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:18 am

@Nereus7 wrote:
Liz the drinking air thing is funny, I have a fat chupakabra, half pit half lab brindle dog that always hits up his water bowl after eating, and drools it half way across the kitchen.. I like a good drink of water after I eat too... we're all the same Smile

I've just never seen a fish do it! scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:24 am

I read something interesting last night. Basicly in a nutshell it was saying that when you're dealing with the round fish like those goldfish, if they over eat it puts pressure, or blocks (I can't remember which) the way they regulate their swim bladders. If it gets blocked when the bladder's full they float, if it's empty they sink. Maybe your fish are gulping air after they eat to kind of adjust how much boyancy they need with a full gut. Whether this is true or not I have no idea. It makes sense, feed them peas to clear them out and they can start regulating again and once the blockage is cleared, and they're fixed! -N

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PostSubject: Re: Swim bladder disease   Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:25 am

Here you go, I'll just C&P it, :
SBD, or Swim Bladder Desease, is a digestive disorder that often occurs in fancy goldfish. It occurs when a goldfish gulps down air with it's food, causing constipation. In golbloid shaped goldfish, the guts and swim bladder are linked, so if a fish becomes constipated, the swim bladder will not be able to deflate. This means that your goldfish will be stuck on the surface of the water and will be very uncomfortable. In some unusual cases, if the fish becomes constipated when the swim bladder is deflated, the fish will be stuck on the bottom rather than at the top. Luckily, SBD is relatively easy to treat, but your fish will probably not be able to return to the food that caused the problem. The best way to treat the disorder is to feed frozen peas. Make sure that they have been cooked and remove the skins, then mash them up between your fingers and hold the pieces near the fish's mouth. Once the goldfish eats the pea, it will go through their digestive tract and they will no longer be constipated, of course, this will not be instant. Melafix medicine is good to add as well as the peas, it will not cure the fish, but it will make the fish more comfortable. Don't feed the fish normal food of any type during the treatment. After one day of treatment your fish should be cured, if this doesn't make the fish better over night, try feeding more peas, and make sure the fish eats them. Once your fish is cured of SBD, DO NOT feed them flake food or floating pellet food; these foods are the cause of the disorder. Gell food is good, and sinking pellets are good (soak for 3 minuets before feeding). Give your fish peas on a regular bases as well, this will help to prevent the problem, and be sure to clean your tank often. I hope these tips can help you if your fish is having swim bladder problems

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